The book's thesis (I have read only the review) is that science was not the beneficiary of the Renaissance, but rather that the scientific revolution itself gave rise to the Enlightenment. If this guy has it right, the anti-scientific attitude of the Texas Board of Education is that much more foreboding.
Some religious extremist on the committee says that the concept of separation of church and state is not in the constitution, so it should not be taught because he personally does not believe in it. Even though it was quoted by the Supremes in 1878.
So, by this reasoning, anything that is not explicitly in the constitution should not be taught. Especially those pesky amendments to the constitution.
Huh?
"Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.[1] The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise.[2] Reflecting a concept often credited in its original form to the English political philosopher John Locke [3], the phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation"[4] between church and state. The phrase was quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept." wiki
"The Enlightenment is held to be the source of critical ideas, such as the centrality of freedom, democracy, and reason as primary values of society. This view argues that the establishment of a contractual basis of rights would lead to the market mechanism and capitalism, the scientific method, religious tolerance, and the organization of states into self-governing republics through democratic means. In this view, the tendency of the philosophes in particular to apply rationality to every problem is considered the essential change." wiki
...i was reading this on the airplane coming home yesterday - interview with Jacques Herzog, the swiss architect - and it reminded me of a query of steve hanks to job the other day...
kind of obliquely related to this post, but i thought it worth capturing...a very astute observation, in my view...
"Herzog is working on a massive art museum in Kolkata (see box below), due to open in 2013. I suggest his global profile means he is afforded an extraordinary glimpse into the workings of power and must have an understanding of the way it is shifting round the world? “Absolutely. If you grow up in Switzerland, with its hard-core democracy, then you travel, you realise we have reached our limitations – the popular vote is not an expression of freedom any more but of the manipulation of an agenda by the political class and politics is just a game played among politicians.” I ask about November’s Swiss referendum in which the public voted in favour of banning minarets for mosques. “Basel didn’t vote for that,” he shoots back. “It should never have been an issue to vote on in the first place. The vote was presented [by government] as a freedom but it is a freedom which limits the freedom of other people.”"
here is the link...if you are not registered with the FT, just sign up it is free and it is a really good resource...
I don't live in Texas but if it were put up for a vote in that state I suspect it would win. In an unfettered democracy, the majority will always find a way to fuck over some minority; that's why we have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. See Prop 8.
"It should never have been an issue to vote on in the first place. The vote was presented [by government] as a freedom but it is a freedom which limits the freedom of other people."
The government made indeed a mistake: they (and maybe Herzog as well) should have read Machiavelli first.
That said, I recognize the shortcomings and constraints of "democracy". But I always struggle/hurt a bit when people say things like Herzog does. You hear this and similar things all the time on CNN, MSNBC, FOX - "Paying for someone else's healthcare limits my freedom." How very true indeed ...
I sniff a certain intellectual elitism of the potentially unhealthy variety. I can't help but "reading" that citizens of Basel are educated and didn't vote for it, so they're cool when presented the freedom to vote. As far as the "dumb" rest of the country is concerned, they're not worthy of that same freedom ...
Your comment isn't oblique at all. It somehow all goes back to the string of "Top lefty's and righty's" emails that preceded the creation of this venerable forum + all subsequent postings, be they on Being and/or Time, Mysticism, etc. Which is good. We are clearly circling a bandwagon. Hope it's the right one.
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An interesting book review in the NYT Book Review recently:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/books/review/Rosen-t.html?scp=14&sq=The%20Enlightenment&st=cse
The book's thesis (I have read only the review) is that science was not the beneficiary of the Renaissance, but rather that the scientific revolution itself gave rise to the Enlightenment. If this guy has it right, the anti-scientific attitude of the Texas Board of Education is that much more foreboding.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYou lost me there in that thesis, Steve.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to (R)Evolution, Texas Board of Education and Enlightenment has always been an oxymoron. ;-)
But the TBE sponsor an annual Texas Renaissance Festival in Plantersville ...
Some religious extremist on the committee says that the concept of separation of church and state is not in the constitution, so it should not be taught because he personally does not believe in it. Even though it was quoted by the Supremes in 1878.
ReplyDeleteSo, by this reasoning, anything that is not explicitly in the constitution should not be taught. Especially those pesky amendments to the constitution.
Huh?
"Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.[1] The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise.[2]
Reflecting a concept often credited in its original form to the English political philosopher John Locke [3], the phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation"[4] between church and state. The phrase was quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept." wiki
This is not a good thing?
ReplyDelete"The Enlightenment is held to be the source of critical ideas, such as the centrality of freedom, democracy, and reason as primary values of society. This view argues that the establishment of a contractual basis of rights would lead to the market mechanism and capitalism, the scientific method, religious tolerance, and the organization of states into self-governing republics through democratic means. In this view, the tendency of the philosophes in particular to apply rationality to every problem is considered the essential change." wiki
...i was reading this on the airplane coming home yesterday - interview with Jacques Herzog, the swiss architect - and it reminded me of a query of steve hanks to job the other day...
ReplyDeletekind of obliquely related to this post, but i thought it worth capturing...a very astute observation, in my view...
"Herzog is working on a massive art museum in Kolkata (see box below), due to open in 2013. I suggest his global profile means he is afforded an extraordinary glimpse into the workings of power and must have an understanding of the way it is shifting round the world? “Absolutely. If you grow up in Switzerland, with its hard-core democracy, then you travel, you realise we have reached our limitations – the popular vote is not an expression of freedom any more but of the manipulation of an agenda by the political class and politics is just a game played among politicians.” I ask about November’s Swiss referendum in which the public voted in favour of banning minarets for mosques. “Basel didn’t vote for that,” he shoots back. “It should never have been an issue to vote on in the first place. The vote was presented [by government] as a freedom but it is a freedom which limits the freedom of other people.”"
here is the link...if you are not registered with the FT, just sign up it is free and it is a really good resource...
Lunch with the FT: Jacques Herzoge
So, Steve, is there going to be a minaret ban in Texas? :)))
ReplyDeleteI don't live in Texas but if it were put up for a vote in that state I suspect it would win. In an unfettered democracy, the majority will always find a way to fuck over some minority; that's why we have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. See Prop 8.
ReplyDelete"It should never have been an issue to vote on in the first place. The vote was presented [by government] as a freedom but it is a freedom which limits the freedom of other people."
ReplyDeleteThe government made indeed a mistake: they (and maybe Herzog as well) should have read Machiavelli first.
That said, I recognize the shortcomings and constraints of "democracy". But I always struggle/hurt a bit when people say things like Herzog does. You hear this and similar things all the time on CNN, MSNBC, FOX - "Paying for someone else's healthcare limits my freedom." How very true indeed ...
I sniff a certain intellectual elitism of the potentially unhealthy variety. I can't help but "reading" that citizens of Basel are educated and didn't vote for it, so they're cool when presented the freedom to vote. As far as the "dumb" rest of the country is concerned, they're not worthy of that same freedom ...
Your comment isn't oblique at all. It somehow all goes back to the string of "Top lefty's and righty's" emails that preceded the creation of this venerable forum + all subsequent postings, be they on Being and/or Time, Mysticism, etc. Which is good. We are clearly circling a bandwagon. Hope it's the right one.